New Russian Context
Vladimir Putin interviewed by US journalist Tucker Carlson, the Russian leader's interview immediately described as "Kremlin mind games" and propaganda.
UPDATE: Carlson: One person I spoke to before the interview was Bill Burns, then the longtime U.S. ambassador in Moscow. He met Putin numerous times and is now chief of the CIA. And I asked him about how I should approach Putin. Also Bob Zoellick, former deputy Secretary of State, he knew Putin very well and both of them said, don’t antagonise him at the beginning. Treat him with respect. And that was good advice. It’s not about being soft but if you want to have a chance of learning something, you’re not going to go for cheap shots or aggression at the beginning. So that was good advice.
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Russian President Vladimir Putin interviewed by US journalist Tucker Carlson
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What Putin Wants to Get Out of Tucker Carlson
By Maura Reynolds (Politico)
One of the last Western journalists to interview the Russian leader describes the Kremlin’s mind games, and how to discern journalism from propaganda.
As you know, he’s much shorter than he appears. He’s actually maybe 5 feet five or so. And [Dmitry] Peskov, the longtime Kremlin spokesman, was in the background, and then myself and Henry. And then I said to Henry, you know, we’ve waited four-plus hours. I’m going to speak German to him to just remind him that I know that he was a KGB agent in Dresden. And, of course, he then spoke back in German. I said in German, thank you very much for seeing us, it’s been some time since I last saw you. And he then said, thank you, and where did you learn your German? And I said Oxford, but I didn’t just learn German, I did German Modern History. And then he said, in German, what is modern history? It was just like being hit by a sledgehammer. What do I say? He’s the master of destabilization, you’ve got to be always on your toes. So my brain froze, and then I suddenly said, in German, well, Mr. President, modern history is everything that happened after 1989 [when the Berlin Wall fell]. And he liked that answer, and then he said, okay, sit down.
I prepared seriously for this. I was determined that the interview would last longer than an hour. It ended up lasting about an hour and 40 minutes. And I remember after about 80 minutes, he started grumbling and saying, this was taking rather long. And I said, Mr. President, I waited five years for this, we do need to go on a bit.
One person I spoke to before the interview was Bill Burns, then the longtime U.S. ambassador in Moscow. He met Putin numerous times and is now chief of the CIA. And I asked him about how I should approach Putin. Also Bob Zoellick, former deputy Secretary of State, he knew Putin very well and both of them said, don’t antagonise him at the beginning. Treat him with respect. And that was good advice. It’s not about being soft but if you want to have a chance of learning something, you’re not going to go for cheap shots or aggression at the beginning. So that was good advice.
Carlson’s critics see him as more of a propagandist or a demagogue than a journalist. So, does that mean that his approach to this interview is going to be different than yours? And what will you be looking for, to try to judge what Carlson’s objectives are in this interview?
I’m going to judge him first by the quality of the questions and whether his questions give the game away, show that he’s on Putin’s side. If they’re just softball or cream puff questions, then it’s just a piece of propaganda and he’s just acting as Putin’s mouthpiece and puppet.
The other point is, is he going to ask at least a couple of questions that are going to make Putin uncomfortable? And I would say that he has to. If he’s a journalist, a proper journalist would ask about the detention of Evan Gershkovich, the Moscow correspondent who’s in jail on trumped up spying charges. If he doesn’t even mention Gershkovich, that’s appalling. Gershkovich isn’t a political opponent of the regime. He’s a journalist. He’s an American journalist.
So if Carlson is really there as a journalist, he will ask about the fate of another journalist?
That’s the litmus test for the integrity of this interview. Does he mention Gershkovich being in detention? Or is he going to be a bit of a toadying interviewer? I mean, you can be polite but not overly polite. Will he be slightly detached? Does he elicit any information from Putin that is surprising? Or is it just meh, it’s just what we all know, no different from what Putin has said before? This is the test for the interviewer — are you actually eliciting information as opposed to propaganda?
How much was Russia’s revanchist version of history an element in your interview with Putin and how do you think he has evolved in the subsequent four years?
There were at least three very important things that came out in our interview. The first was — and I should give Bill Burns the credit for this because I asked, what’s the one question you would ask Putin? And he said, ask him, “After 20 years, has your risk appetite gone up or down based on your experience?” It’s a brilliant question. At first Putin tried to duck it and then I pushed him. And then he said, well, we have a saying in Russia, “Those who don’t take the risk, don’t get to drink the champagne.” Well, that was clear. His risk appetite had gone up.
Read more here.