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Transcript

The Chair Episode 8

In this episode we cover Cambodia's Techo Funan Canal and China's involvement and investment attitude as well as a update on risks to the Belt and Road in West Asia, Red Sea, Mediterranean and Africa.

Belt and Road update

In this episode we cover Cambodia's Techo Funan Canal and China's involvement and investment attitude as well as a update on risks to the Belt and Road in West Asia, Red Sea, Mediterranean and Africa.

Check out my Multipolar Peace friends on YouTube below.




https://teacup.media/chinahistorypodcast


Transcript

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welcome to the chair i'm your host dr digby james wren today is friday the 13th of

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december 2024 a most auspicious date to end my hiatus for the last two months and

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to start broadcasting again streaming

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to all of my subscribers and followers.

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And I'm pleased to announce that the chair has roughly 4,000 subscribers and we go

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out to about 200,000 on our newsletter,

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200,000 a day.

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We've had a TikTok with one million views.

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So that's starting to build.

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And so I thought I'd better get back into action and start talking about what is

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important in the world for all of those that follow geopolitical risk

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global trade and investment,

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political economy,

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and also public diplomacy,

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because basically I have two specializations.

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One is IR,

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but specifically on Belt and Road and global political economy,

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and the other one is media and communications,

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where I've had a 40-year career.

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But that's been very exciting.

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I've been very fortunate.

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I've been getting a lot of coverage on Bloomberg and on CNA in Singapore and all

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sorts of other channels all over the world.

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Plus,

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of course,

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contributing to China Daily,

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Khmer Times here in Phnom Penh and other papers and journals,

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especially journals related to global political economy and the Belt and Road.

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And that's what I want to talk to you about today is the Belt and Road.

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And specifically here in Cambodia,

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the recent meeting between the former Prime Minister and father of the current

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Prime Minister.

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Hun Manet is the current Prime Minister.

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His father is Hun Sen.

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Everybody knows who that is, I think.

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And I had the honor of being the English editor for his official biography last year,

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which was a really...

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I jumped at the opportunity,

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not just because it was Hun Sen,

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although I feel that many people don't really understand how successful Hun Sen

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really has been.

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He's been demonized enormously in the press,

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especially Western press,

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non-caring dictator who will do anything for power and won't allow any opposition

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parties and so forth and so on.

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But most of that is

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narrative generated by the United States and sometimes Europe.

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But what Hun Sen really has brought to Cambodia is stability.

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And that has enabled Cambodia to have extraordinary economic growth over the last 10 years.

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Now in 2012 Cambodia started to have some real economic growth.

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that just coincided of course with the launch of the belt and road xi jinping's

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ascension to power in china and of course china and cambodia have a very close

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relationship ironclad relationship although i would say that this meeting that they

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recently had hun sen who's now the president of the senate and xi jinping last week

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in beijing and in that meeting

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the readouts from that meeting were not particularly detailed.

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And the reason is because there is trouble over what's called the Phunan-Tekho Canal,

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which is a means by...

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It's an existing canal,

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in fact,

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about 100 kilometres long,

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and it goes from the Mekong down to the Gulf of Thailand just before the Vietnamese

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border and comes out in Khom Pot,

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which is a relatively small port.

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And it enables Cambodia to free itself of the stranglehold that Vietnam has on its

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riverine transport networks.

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In other words,

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all the shipping out of the hinterland of Cambodia is shipped down the Mekong and

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to Vietnam.

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It's about 1.2 billion,

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which is not a lot because really all they're doing is widening and deepening the

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existing canal,

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which is not that expensive.

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And that will also enable seven more ports to be built up in the upper reaches of

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the Mekong in Cambodia,

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which completely would open the hinterland to all of the agriculture and mining and

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all sorts of other things.

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The problem with that of course for Cambodia is that they are dependent on Vietnam

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and so this is a way of breaking that stranglehold.

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Now originally China had agreed to invest in that and then there was some opposition,

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a lot of opposition to that especially by Vietnam.

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China is also working quite closely with Vietnam now with the rail networks.

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Xi Jinping visited Vietnam

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to launch that and so that's going ahead so now Hun Sen has vowed to have the canal

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built regardless so it's 51% owned by the Cambodians and so it's a Cambodian

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project in real terms these days but the thing is that we're in the visit last week

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there was no comment about the canal.

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It was definitely discussed, but in the readouts, it wasn't mentioned at all.

(00:05:13):

And so the concentration in the readout was about cooperation,

(00:05:18):

existing cooperation,

(00:05:19):

strategic cooperation,

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economic cooperation,

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but more importantly than anything else from the Chinese side was an alignment with

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the Belt and Road.

(00:05:28):

What is the Belt and Road?

(00:05:30):

And everybody,

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Many people think they know what that is but I've been studying the Belt and Road

(00:05:35):

since 2012 when it started and I was in China when that happened and I had access

(00:05:41):

to a lot of the original documents and documentation about the Belt and Road.

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Now the road is the part that most people understand.

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It's a bit confusing because it's not just roads obviously.

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And so people are confused about that.

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But it's clearly what it is is linkages between A and B. So port to port.

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Now those ports are all kinds of ports.

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Sea ports, river ports, rail ports, land ports, dry ports.

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And so anywhere basically where there's going to be transfer of goods

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onto transport of any kind.

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But it also includes pipelines, electricity, gas, internet.

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So the hard part.

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So what I'm saying is the physical infrastructure.

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So those are all

(00:06:29):

road projects.

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In other words, they connect A to B with some kind of power or transport or something like that.

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And so that's global.

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But what is perhaps more interesting is the belt part, which is basically economic belts.

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And so what that means is supply chains.

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An economic belt is basically the attempt

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to construct complete supply chains between,

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say,

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two cities or between A and B.

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A good example of that would be a car manufacturer or aeronautic manufacturer in

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China between Chongqing and Chengdu,

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which are two cities,

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about 300 kilometers apart,

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but with high-speed rail at 400 kilometers an hour,

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it takes less than one hour.

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I think it's 35 to 40 minutes now between Chengdu and Chongqing, and that has now become the largest

(00:07:20):

urban agglomeration in the world with a population of well over 100 million.

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In those belts you also have universities,

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research and design and at the other end you have marketing,

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retail,

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sales,

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marketing and that's where the money is.

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The money is not in manufacture, it's a parabola.

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And at the bottom is the manufacturer.

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And that is the lesser part, usually something like 6% of the totality.

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The real money is made in the research and development because you own the patents

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or you own the design or the product.

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And at the other end, you have the marketing and sales where there's money in that too, of course.

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So that's where the profit centers really are.

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And you can see that in what Apple does.

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So you've got third-party manufacturers for pretty well all of Apple's stuff.

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But Apple controls very, very tightly the design, the research, the development.

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And they also control very, very tightly the marketing and the sales at the other end.

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And so that's where they draw all their profits.

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And increasingly,

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it's from the services that they provide for the hard product,

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which is the phone,

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right?

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So the apps and all of those things, the music and cloud and all that sort of thing.

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So that is all part of the belt.

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That is built into the belt, not the road, if you see what I mean.

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That part of it is substructure.

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That's what I call in the Belt and Road, you have a substructure.

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And that substructure is all of that hard stuff, pipelines, roads,

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ships transport ports and then there's the soft and so that's the superstructure

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and this is all of the services that run along the belt and road and so that's

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e-commerce that's all of the services that are provided in relation to customs to

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taxation

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to legal requirements to standards many of those are services and one needs to

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understand that it's the united states that dominates in services globally and

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that's where most of the surplus trade

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surplus of the US has because you know you we often say oh the US doesn't have a

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trade service but it does it has a trade services in good in services not in goods

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but in services a huge trade surplus in services every year and and of course we're

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talking about Apple Facebook

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Amazon, Nvidia, Oracle, any of those companies, you all know who they are.

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So those are all services that they provide and the US dominates in that area.

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But they also dominate in legal and accounting practices in the registration and

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the standardization approval processes for aircraft approval for pharmaceuticals.

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any kind of standardization or integration that requires legal or official standards.

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And so US standards,

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because that's the largest import market,

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or it was the largest import market,

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China is now the largest import market,

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I think.

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But so those standards, the US has controlled those.

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And of course, that's where they make their money.

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And so that's why they've not really ever been too much concern about exports of goods.

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They're all the second largest exporter of goods,

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but they are by far the world's largest exporter of services.

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And this is where the real action is.

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So because Donald Trump, for example, is going to introduce all of these tariffs,

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i mean there's of course all the sanctions that are already in place national

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security is a word that's used at the end of every sentence now in american

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political life but that's what the u.s is protect protecting more than anything

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else it's protecting its services surplus globally and because clearly if the the

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largest car market in the world is china so who's setting the standards in cars

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EVs.

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It's China.

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And of course, the US doesn't like that.

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And neither does Europe, because they have dominated the standards for so long.

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And,

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you know,

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just think about,

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you know,

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everybody wanted a Mercedes or a BMW or a Jeep or something like that.

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But those are no longer the top standards.

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The top standards in cars are now batteries and EVs made and designed and produced in China.

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And one can see that there's a real problem with the services that follow that.

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And all of the services that follow that specifically because it's all electronic, it's all digital.

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The mapping,

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all of the data that's going to be,

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that drives big data that comes from every single EV on the road.

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And of course that's used as a national security problem.

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And you can see that large exporters of pharmaceuticals like India are also very

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interested to have control over the standardization and approval of drugs and pharmaceuticals.

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And you can see that China is making headways as it moves up the value chain.

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It means that it's also moving to services.

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And as the domestic market really drives the export, because

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That is the most competitive domestic market in the world now.

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Just think about phones or EVs.

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China is by far the most dynamic market.

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Now, this just mirrors what happened 40 years ago in Japan.

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In the 1980s in Japan, in the 1970s, late 70s and 80s, Japan also

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was really setting the trend in their domestic market for cars and for technology.

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Just think about Walkman and PlayStation and so forth.

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China is really only just mirroring that, but at a much larger scale.

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A scale that has never been achieved before.

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Because the US was big, and it is big, still is big, but it's not the biggest.

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The desire by the Americans to maintain

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control of these markets.

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So decoupling supply chains

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trying to take China out of these supply chains is also a way of trying to protect

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all of those services that run in the superstructure of the international connectivity.

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Now, Belt and Road has connected more than 136 countries.

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Now, the United States was never able to do this.

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The United States owns so few ports around the world,

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and it's relied on the mere fact that it is the largest market

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And therefore it's the largest producer of technology.

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And so it's exported that and then it set all the standards.

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And so that means everybody had to apply those standards in their own markets and

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therefore they needed more US products and so forth and so on.

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But now China has been able to break into that.

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Now we can clearly see that the EU has never been able to do that.

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There's no large social media company in the EU.

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There's no really big tech companies except perhaps for the German SAP and a few others.

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But the car industry in Europe dominated globally along with the Japanese.

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But that was because they were exporting into the US.

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They had dynamic markets at home and then they were able to export cutting edge

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products to the US and also to China.

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But that, of course, has now changed.

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The shoe is on the other foot.

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And so what we can see here is that the Belt and Road has really fundamentally

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changed the balance of trade infrastructure globally.

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And now that the pipelines and the ports and this new port that's just opened in Peru

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is a good example of this.

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That means that the very,

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very large container ships are no longer going to go to Los Angeles for transshipment.

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They will go straight to Peru and then be transshipped out of there.

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Now that's much shorter, therefore cheaper, more efficient.

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And Long Beach, of course, you know, U.S.

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ports are amongst the worst performing ports in terms of efficiency.

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So it's not just about trying to cut out the U.S.,

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it's about trying to cut out inefficiencies which raise the prices.

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And so that's inflationary in a real sense, I suppose.

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And so therefore, there's real logic behind

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opening these ports on the east coast of South America.

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Now, the Belt and Road is not closed to anybody.

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I mean, anybody can use these.

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These ports are not closed.

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It's not as if American ships can't go to these ports.

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They do, and they can.

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Just as a sideline here, just a very small digression.

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I just remember this morning somebody saying,

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you know,

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the US was talking about sanctioning Russian shadow fleet.

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for oil transport well of course it's not a shadow fleet it's just a fleet it's not

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illegal in any way it's just the russian ships and they're called shadow but but

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it's not at all they're just russian ships doing selling russian oil and gas so

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it's not a shadow fleet there's not some illegality in doing that it's not illegal

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to sell your oil or to sell your products

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sell your corn or your rice or your soybeans or your oil or anything else.

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Why?

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It's just a silly notion.

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And so this is kind of what,

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you know,

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the public diplomacy part of what I was trying to talk about before.

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The narratives are not factual.

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And so,

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so many people are misled into what really is happening in the global political

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economy and how that underpins global political problems.

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Regime change, colour revolutions, all of those things.

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Those colour revolutions are supported by Obama and also the pivot to Asia.

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Washington may be a swamp,

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as Donald Trump says,

(00:17:31):

and he's cleaning it up,

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but there's still very,

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very smart people in Washington and they saw

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A long time ago, just like I did, that China was rising no matter what.

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And when Xi Jinping came to power and launched the Belt and Road,

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people in Washington were instantly worried about this.

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Very, very worried.

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And this is why.

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the Americans said, OK, now we have to pivot to Asia Pacific.

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They've realized, of course, that a land war in Asia is unwinnable.

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We all know that.

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And just look at the Ukraine.

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It's impossible to win a land war in Asia.

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But now what is happening in Syria and Iraq is that the land route, the westward land route, Belvin Road,

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goes through Iran into Iraq, into Syria, Jordan, Israel, the Suez Canal, and the Eastern Mediterranean.

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And what's happening here is that last trade route,

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land trade route,

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that connects through the Eastern Mediterranean into Africa,

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and the Suez and the Red Sea.

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That is all being contested right now.

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And you don't want to be fooling yourself thinking,

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oh,

(00:18:46):

this is all just about evil regimes and toppling governments.

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So much of this is about trade routes because that's where the money comes from.

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And the Eastern Mediterranean, Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Gaza,

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jordan iraq syria that is the gateway that's a three-way gateway so east west north

(00:19:17):

south but also middle east to africa so so that is a you know three directions of

(00:19:24):

trade routes going on there so that is a fulcrum and this is one of the major

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reasons that this is being for don't know

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It's not just about the ideological and human rights and political parties,

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socialist political parties or authoritarian governments,

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etc.

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Because the Americans back authoritarian governments all the time when they wanted them,

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when they need them.

(00:19:59):

So it's not just about that at all.

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It's so much about the basic economics that underlie that.

(00:20:05):

And that trade route,

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that's the last major trade route that goes from Central Asia,

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so all the way from Shanghai,

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really,

(00:20:14):

or even from Tokyo,

(00:20:17):

all the way across Eurasia and gets to the Eastern Mediterranean,

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the Suez.

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And so that's being blocked.

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So blocking Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon.

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That blocks that trade route.

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And Israel, by the way, had signed up and Haifa port was expanded.

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The rail route to Jordan has been built.

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Just Iraq and Syria blocking it in real terms.

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And of course trying to block Iran as well because Iran is pivotal in that area and

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it's a well-educated population and has a long civilizational four or five thousand

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year history.

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And it's not going away anytime soon.

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And it's much more about controlling that.

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And it's also the soft underbelly of Russia.

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And that needs to be taken into consideration as well.

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And so this is where the Belt and Road has run into American problems.

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So the Americans are blocking it in real terms.

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They don't want that to happen.

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They don't want Iran to become richer, which would make all of the other countries around Iran richer.

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And they don't want them trading into the eastern Mediterranean,

(00:21:36):

having access into Suez and into North Africa.

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They don't want that.

(00:21:41):

But we know what's going on in North Africa already.

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The French have been kicked out and all of those minerals and resources.

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So that's colonialism.

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The French colonialism is still active.

(00:21:54):

And so now, in real terms, the Red Sea is basically

(00:22:01):

blocked in many ways and so trade is going around Africa and it's very expensive.

(00:22:06):

How is the Red Sea going to be opened again?

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So this is a real struggle from a political economy point of view and definitely

(00:22:17):

from a Belt and Road point of view.

(00:22:21):

And of course the Belt and Road was originally just a westward thing because they

(00:22:24):

were blocked in the Pacific by the Americans so it was decided that they had to go

(00:22:28):

west and into Central Asia and have a very,

(00:22:33):

very good relationship with Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping and that's allowed this

(00:22:38):

all to happen.

(00:22:39):

Russia obviously benefits from this enormously and you can see that

(00:22:43):

during the conflict in Ukraine that this has happened.

(00:22:46):

And while we're on the topic of Ukraine,

(00:22:48):

and I'll just,

(00:22:48):

I think,

(00:22:49):

finish up for today on the Ukraine,

(00:22:51):

one needs to remember that the Ukraine is an borderland and a transit state.

(00:22:57):

And it was always that.

(00:22:58):

And thousands of years of its history,

(00:23:00):

if you want to read about its history,

(00:23:02):

then you'll realize that basically it's open spaces,

(00:23:05):

vast open spaces.

(00:23:06):

You know, Ukraine does not have a large population.

(00:23:09):

And the western part of the Russian side where Russian is spoken, that's the richer part.

(00:23:15):

It was the western part that was always the poorer part of the Ukraine west of the Dnieper.

(00:23:21):

And so that was always fought over by Germans and the Lithuanians and the Poles and the Moldavians.

(00:23:27):

And I think you're going to be finding them squabbling about it again.

(00:23:32):

And I think Hungary would very much like that not to happen.

(00:23:36):

And so you can see that Viktor Orban has become quite important.

(00:23:40):

He just had a meeting with Trump and they're now trying to see what they can do,

(00:23:47):

what Trump can do to stop the Ukraine conflict.

(00:23:51):

But look, that is also about blocking trade routes.

(00:23:54):

That is also about, you know, we talk about regime change in Russia and everything else.

(00:23:59):

But to get there, you need to block their trade.

(00:24:02):

So they can't make money.

(00:24:04):

So that's what the purpose of all these sanctions are,

(00:24:06):

but also physically,

(00:24:08):

geographical,

(00:24:09):

topographically,

(00:24:11):

blocking land routes and destroying pipelines.

(00:24:15):

Nord Stream 2,

(00:24:17):

closing the pipelines that go across Ukraine,

(00:24:20):

for example,

(00:24:21):

electricity generation,

(00:24:23):

gas,

(00:24:24):

internet,

(00:24:25):

all that sort of thing,

(00:24:26):

flight paths,

(00:24:27):

all of that,

(00:24:27):

that's all Belden Road stuff.

(00:24:29):

And that's being blocked in the Ukraine.

(00:24:33):

So now there's other routes around that.

(00:24:34):

So that's beneficial for NATO member Turkey.

(00:24:38):

They have pipeline and it benefits them greatly.

(00:24:42):

And it also benefits the United States greatly because,

(00:24:44):

of course,

(00:24:45):

now Europe has to buy their gas and energy from the United States far more

(00:24:49):

expensive than they ever did from Russia.

(00:24:51):

And so look what's happened to Germany's economy.

(00:24:54):

And you can see that this is really a repeat of what happened to Japan.

(00:24:59):

uh 30 years 40 years ago when the miracle the japanese miracle just disappeared

(00:25:04):

after the plaza accords and they had to revalue their currency because their

(00:25:08):

exports were just too good and so what's happening to china so don't you know i

(00:25:13):

don't be thinking this is all new it's not new there's a myriad of examples of

(00:25:17):

where this has happened before what's different is that china is very very big

(00:25:24):

It's the largest economy in the world in PPP terms, by far.

(00:25:29):

And that's why,

(00:25:31):

of course,

(00:25:32):

we don't really concentrate on GDP because if you just change everything into dollars,

(00:25:36):

well then,

(00:25:36):

of course,

(00:25:36):

the United States is always going to look richer.

(00:25:39):

But because of currencies, it's a different matter.

(00:25:44):

So, as Elon Musk said, currency is really only the database for the transaction of goods and services.

(00:25:53):

And that's what the Belt and Road does.

(00:25:55):

It facilitates goods and services.

(00:25:58):

And the real threat in there is not so much the goods,

(00:26:01):

it's the services that's where the danger is to the u.s economy it imports enormous

(00:26:06):

amounts of goods from china and from everywhere else from vietnam and from japan

(00:26:11):

and from germany and everywhere else and trump's going to change that but the real

(00:26:15):

problem is the services because as as all the belt and road countries the bricks

(00:26:24):

start moving their services away.

(00:26:26):

And so, you know, stock markets, for example, financial, that's services, and that's huge.

(00:26:33):

Now, look what's happened to London.

(00:26:35):

You know,

(00:26:35):

they've lost so many of their financial services,

(00:26:38):

and so they've got a shrinking economy line,

(00:26:40):

right?

(00:26:40):

So that's also going to be shifting to Shanghai, to Beijing, to Singapore, and into ASEAN.

(00:26:50):

And I think next time,

(00:26:51):

so I hope that's been a helpful small discussion and next time I think we'll

(00:26:56):

probably talk about ASEAN and China and that relationship and what's going to

(00:27:00):

happen when Trump comes into power,

(00:27:03):

tariffs,

(00:27:04):

sanctions,

(00:27:05):

security, South China Sea, Taiwan, all of those things are really well worth talking about.

(00:27:10):

And so I've just shot this with the green screen and then now I'm going to add all the stuff.

(00:27:15):

You'll have seen that I've added all the graphics and everything and I hope it looks really great.

(00:27:19):

But this is just the first attempt.

(00:27:20):

This is the first time that I've really tried to use the home studio to do this.

(00:27:24):

My friend, the China History Podcast, Laszlo Montgomery, he was the first one to use my studio.

(00:27:30):

He did his third, I think, episode three on Singapore.

(00:27:34):

So I'll put a link to him as well.

(00:27:36):

And if you can,

(00:27:38):

check out my multipolar piece friends,

(00:27:41):

Pascal Lotez,

(00:27:43):

David Oh in Austin,

(00:27:44):

Texas,

(00:27:46):

Warwick Powell.

(00:27:48):

in brisbane australia uh ina tangan in beijing mr media and so many others that i

(00:27:55):

haven't mentioned but you're going to see them on this channel and and i've been on

(00:28:00):

their channels and i haven't been able to get them on my channels and so it's a

(00:28:03):

little bit of an apology while i was setting everything up and they've been very

(00:28:06):

patient and they'll be joining me so i'm going to do you know we we have uh eight

(00:28:11):

sub stacks all together that i'm involved in and they all have different uh

(00:28:16):

specialities.

(00:28:17):

So the Mekong, six Mekong countries, that's one.

(00:28:21):

We also do ASEAN, that's called the ASEAN Chair.

(00:28:24):

We also have global polarity, which is multi polarities and all of that.

(00:28:30):

I've got an entertainment one called Gala, Gala Live.

(00:28:33):

And we've done a deal with China Media Group and we'll be able to get

(00:28:39):

lots of things from China media dubbed into Khmer language if you're in Cambodia

(00:28:44):

but also into other languages and of course the spring festival that's available so

(00:28:49):

we'll look out for that I'll give a link to that as well and the young minds which

(00:28:53):

is a pet project to promote students university students and so

(00:29:02):

Keep enjoying, keep watching and I'll be with you very, very soon.

(00:29:07):

Thanks very much.

(00:29:09):

See you again very soon.


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Geo-political Risk Analysis, Security Assessments, Economic Development Trends, Diplomacy and Public Diplomacy